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Published Oct 14, 21
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I want to give you all a break for a moment as well as transform to Mr. Swartz. Typically, we would have had 2 panels, but we really did not understand just how the Senate would certainly be running today, so in an initiative to make certain we obtained through all the treaties today, we did this as one panel.

Swartz, you explain in your testimony and also your declarations that the treaty with Bermuda likewise pierces financial institution secrecy and also supplies a system for us obtaining the information we need. There have been some common lawful help treaties which contain stipulations related straight to sharing financial institution documents or other financial information.

That was a provision that was prepared and embraced in the context of the E.U.

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Under that provision, arrangement's possible for feasible requesting party to seek information look for to whether an account exists in the requested countryAsked for nation in the case of instance E.U., one of the requested member asked for. Thereafter, the demand, if there is a recognition of an account, should be followed up through a conventional mutual legal aid treaty.

As well as with respect to Bermuda, our record of cooperation has actually been excellent. Our team believe that the document we have on the manufacturing of documents, consisting of bank records, is such that we are confident that the arrangements consisted of in this mutual legal support treaty, which do call for teamwork on the production of records, will be sufficient to make sure that we get the documents we need for our monetary examinations and various other examinations.

Some other MLATs additionally allow for immediate, non-written type requests to be made. Mr. Chairman, while it is real that the Shared Lawful Aid Treaty does call for requests in written form, it was the judgment of the negotiators that it was adequate that, in this case, with regard to Bermuda, we would be able to acquire expeditious actions to our demands as well as likewise give such feedbacks to Bermuda's requests, specifically due to the fact that we have a technique currently established that will proceed, we think, under the treaty of being able to share those demands with email or with fax.

Senator Cardin. So was this, essentially, a decision made by U.S. negotiators, that it was not needed, knowing exactly how we can quickly get faxes and also e-mails sent out? Is that fair enough to say, or not? Mr. Johnson. Senator, if I can help on that particular one? Senator Cardin. Sure. Mr. Johnson.

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Bermuda stood up to that due to the fact that they desired to make sure that the requests were clear and in a much more official method. However in the arrangements, it likewise became clear that they accepted that such request could be made by fax or by email. So the actual problem they were worried regarding was not locating a quick means to make a request, but actually just taking dental demands off the table.

We're positive that we've obtained the ways in area that we can make urgent requests of them in a way that will certainly be reliable. Mr. Swartz. Mr. Chairman, if I might include, as a matter of fact, while it is an advantage to be able to make oral demands, in practice, it's very uncommon that we do so.

Senator Cardin. My primary concern is just, in immediate matters, that it's not postponed. And with modern interaction, it seems to me that can possibly be dealt with. I'm extra concerned about financial institution documents. Mr. Johnson, do have any type of talk about the bank records issue? Mr. Johnson. Again, not especially on the bank issue.

The difference between being able to do an oral demand or being able to utilize among these other extremely fast means, we assume, is not substantial. Senator Cardin. There've been some concerns increased regarding the adequacy of Bermuda regulation relative to forfeitures of profits as well as agencies of criminal offenses.

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Swartz. Mr. Chairman, we are. Obviously, the development of loss law is an important and also dynamic issue. We have actually seen a variety of modifications over the training course of the years, consisting of below in the United States. But the Common Legal Aid Treaty in Post 17 does obligate Bermuda to provide support to the United States in process associating to loss of proceeds and agencies of criminal offense, to the extent permitted by the law of Bermuda.

We have actually had 2 instances of effective ask for restriction and forfeiture of properties. Both instances were a success and we had the ability to get the funds. As a general matter, aid is readily available under the regulations of Bermuda, as well as I do think that is very important to stress, with regard to freezing, taking, as well as limiting possessions, including for matters connecting to terrorism as well as terrorism funding.

But it needs to be kept in mind that loss aid is not restricted to what is permitted under Bermuda's domestic legislation. When it come to a UNITED STATE order, Bermuda can not waive a particular instrumentality of nondrug offenses, since that power doesn't exist domestically. Again, that's restricted to instrumentalities in nondrug infraction instances.

Senator Cardin. Thanks. Let me simply ask the general concern, as well as any kind of among you can reply to it. In the Bermuda contract, there's a stipulation that is not unfamiliar to us, where Bermuda can refute teamwork in resources cases. We understand, I comprehend that, so I'm not being important of that stipulation being included in there.

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Are we impeded as an outcome of that or is there a method which we have the ability to work together under this treaty, even in those cases? Mr. Swartz. Mr. Chairman, our company believe and also we wish we still would be able to comply. Bermuda suggested, and also has actually suggested the United States, that it books the right to deny help in capital cases where the sentence consists of a feasible death sentence, counting on the-- as opposed to the important public law provision of Post 3 of the convention.

We have that experience with other countries that have actually put comparable analyses on the mutual lawful aid duties, and also we have actually been able to function out setups in a number of situations that permit us to get evidence or go over whether the proof is considerable sufficient to go ahead with some kind of more steps being taken.

Mr. Johnson. Mr. Johnson. Yes, Legislator, if I might just include to that, one of the factors this treaty took as long it did to bargain as well as wrap up is due to the fact that it was very important to us to see to it that there wasn't a specific limitation on assistance in funding cases in the treaty itself.

Swartz relevant to you. Which way we assume that helps maintain the principle that is very important to us, that such collaboration should be offered, irrespective of the kind of situation. And also we think this has actually also substantiated with a few other nations, where despite similar worries regarding teamwork in funding instances, they have, as an example, been able to offer help to the nonpenalty stage of a trial or one more celebration examination.

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Senator Cardin. However they do hold the right under this treaty to reject cooperation where the United States criminal justice system is looking for funding punishment? Mr. Johnson. Senator, they hold the right under the treaty to not offer support in cases that are contrary to public plan or their important rate of interests, and also they have actually told us that they interpret that to allow them, in fatality penalty situations, to work out that.

I just wanted to make it clear that they would not be an offense of the treaty. We recognize their interpretation, that if there was a situation pending here that we required their aid, where, plainly, the district attorneys were seeking the fatality penalty, Bermuda can make a decision not to work together under this treaty.

Swartz. If I could state, Mr. Chairman, significantly, the treaty would need, considering that this would be a rejection under Short article 3 of the treaty, that first there had to be examinations with the United States, prior to that rejection can move forward. As well as I assume that's an essential facet of the settlement that Mr.

Instead of having a specific arrangement, this is one of a collection of problems under which assistance might be denied after examination, as well as, amongst various other things, that there should be factor to consider as to whether support can be provided, subject to such problems as the asked for country deems required. As well as our experience in that respect has actually been that we sometimes can locate ideal guarantees to enable evidence to be created, at the very least for preliminary assessment of the value of evidence in the situation overall.

And I assume that would certainly be helpful for us to have that info in this board. Mr. Swartz. Thank you. foreign tax credit. We 'd be glad to supply that. Legislator Cardin. Ms. Mc, Carthy, you have the simplest task here, because this agreement was previously authorized by this board. As I stated in my opening, we accepted it far too late in the 111th Congress for activity.

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Have there been any considerable modifications in our investment partnership with Rwanda considering that last November when you provided statement on this treaty? What we have seen considering that last November is a rise in United States financial investment in Rwanda, and also I can offer you a few examples.

In February of this year, we have Hilton Hotels; it's is going to open up a significant hotel in Kigali. And also, additionally, Marriott Hotels is entering to facilitate the country's growing friendliness sector. I would say that, offered this pattern of enhanced investment, that it is vital that the defenses be managed for them.

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You additionally discussed the truth that the United States is exploring various other bilateral investment treaties in Africa. I think we have 5 present reciprocal financial investment treaties in Africa. Can you simply share with us various other countries that the United States has shown passion in discussing treaties?



I think that completes the examining. We could have some additional questions for the document. As you know, the document remains open for 24-hour, so you get a break. That's a quite rapid turn-around time for this board. I do appreciate your persistence with the board and also thank you extremely a lot for your testimony today.

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Answer. As set out below, we wish to give upgraded details on reported UNITED STATE financial investment task in Rwanda. Besides these updates, the answers provided by the Department's witness in the 111th Congress stay accurate. In 2009, the supply of U.S. foreign straight financial investment in Rwanda was $1 million (according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis).

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And also I assume that would be valuable for us to have that information in this committee. Mr. Swartz. Thank you. We would certainly be glad to supply that. Legislator Cardin. Ms. Mc, Carthy, you have the easiest job right here, given that this agreement was formerly accepted by this board. As I said in my opening, we authorized it too late in the 111th Congress for action.

Have there been any substantial adjustments in our financial investment partnership with Rwanda given that last November when you offered testament on this treaty? Ms. Mc, Carthy. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. What we have actually seen given that last November is a boost in United States investment in Rwanda, and I can provide you a few examples.

In February of this year, we have Hilton Hotels; it's is going to open up a significant hotel in Kigali. And also, likewise, Marriott Hotels is going in to assist in the nation's expanding friendliness sector. I would certainly say that, provided this pattern of increased financial investment, that it is vital that the defenses be managed for them.

capitalists. Senator Cardin (foreign tax credit). I thanks for that. You also pointed out the fact that the United States is checking out various other reciprocal investment treaties in Africa. I believe you mentioned another nation. I believe we have 5 present bilateral financial investment treaties in Africa. Can you just show to us various other nations that the United States has revealed interest in working out treaties? Ms.

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Senator Cardin. Thank you. I have actually been informed by the team that I must ask the concern of whether the administration still supports the Senate passage of the Rwanda treaty, considering that it was held over from the last Congress. So, for the record? Ms. Mc, Carthy. We certainly do. Legislator Cardin.

I assume that completes the questioning. We might have some additional inquiries for the record. As you understand, the record remains open for 24 hr, so you get a break. That's a quite fast turn-around time for this board. I do value your persistence with the committee and thank you very a lot for your statement today.

As established out listed below, we would like to give upgraded info on reported UNITED STATE financial investment task in Rwanda. In 2009, the supply of UNITED STATE foreign straight financial investment in Rwanda was $1 million (according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis).

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